Well, the point is, depending on your Dailys, you cant afford the marked EVERY week. And even with luck, you can not do much with the forge. Thats the whole point it is like this. I mean right now, there are only 4 Cards on the black marked. So you will be through with it pretty fast. But if you get Relics from just staying alive... Remember the insane times from last patch? Even i went to 20k sec+. Even now i have a time of 3k i think. Which would be 100 Relics for free, which is not a good idea.
100 Relics isn't too nuts, though even if the ratio was dropped, it would help incentivize. At the moment, there's not enough XP generated to worry about it.
I gotta say that it was pretty anticlimatic purchasing the same item as last week on the black market this weekend...
"I gotta say that it was pretty anticlimatic purchasing the same item as last week on the black market this weekend…" This is the single greatest reason I don't want to enter the Black Market too early. 300 Card Relics is A LOT of Card Relics to blow them all on a card I might already have.
Yeah last weekend was pretty bad luck that the same item rolled again. Next weekend it will be a different item, promised (I couldn't help myself but have a sneak peek at what the algorithm rolled, hehe)! Maybe we could start a thread in the forums so that players can share what they got each weekend?
Maybe, but the cost of it is still absolutely CRAZY to me. I can roll FIFTEEN items for the cost of ONE Black Market. Card Relics are hard to get Andy!
Yo ucan roll 15 Cards for one Black Marked item. Yes thats right. But you miss the point. The Black Marked is something special, a different way to get powerful items. How many Relics did i spend to get the Seelenreißer? Guess a few thousand and i just recently got my last legendary from the forge... So 300 is much? Hell no! You get a good card for sure. 100% chance. Go into a community and ASK what the current marked roll is and you wont waste it. Right now there are 4 Cards (the fifth is coming) as far as i know. Which means, if you talk with other players, you use esactly 1200 (1500 with the comin card) to get all the items from the BM. You say it's too much? I would say there should be an increase of Relics, even if I'm the only one. Right now, if you have saved a few Relics before the release and doign daily quests, you could always use the black marked... and thats not the intention. It makes it TOO easy for everybody to get the cards. The Black marked should be a reward, not somethin thrown after you guys. And now you want to add different sources of relics? Like survival time? Thats not even funny in my opinion. Then the black marked should be thrown out again and just go with the normal item pool. So you can waste 5000 Relics until you get a specific card. I mean all you have to do right now, is talk to each other and then the whole community only wastes 300 relics if there is double roll... I really dont get it why people start complaining, about such things. Why not take it all out and just give everybody the foil (i think thats the word) cards just on starting to play? And wizard levels too? Come on, you spend time with the game and want some kind of "reward" for it and not getting it for free... If you want it, why dont we just give a relic/kill? Allright, gonna stop here... said more then enough to make my opinion clear. I will not make any comparings to World of Warcraft character leveling etc... but i could ^^
I think the complaint comes from the fact that pulling off three quests in one, on a short Wave length (200), on your first try would only net 120 Card Relics, and take all day. It's somewhat frustrating to know that you're going to have to hoard card relics on the off-chance there might be a good card draw, for 300 Card Relics. You say it took you over 5000 Card Relics to get Seelenreiser. That's unfortunate, but in both new games I've gotten him within the week. You also speak as if he's the only good draw from the standard class. I can yank four heroes, Blood Demon, Seelenreiser and Potion of Luck from the standard pool (Seven items), with fifteen times more chances per attempt. And even if I happen to draw a double golden card, I get partial reimbursement, allowing me possibly more than my fifteen attempts. The pricing isn't comparible, not even remotely close Ontrose. I don't like the RNG aspect of card draw as much as the next guy, but I would still rather play the odds, then know for sure I'm blowing a week or two worth of Card Relics on one card, that's silly. Look at it from a new player's perspective. Someone wanting to come in and play all the maps and still get some cool items can either drop 300 Card Relics and get fifteen cards to take to Golden Grounds, and have multiple high-value items to nab, or they can grab one good item. Sure, for people like us who have been playing longer it's a little easier to justify - we already quite a few cards out of the pool. But the pricing model is heavily slated to screw over people still hoping to get in to the game.
I am going to take the mid ground and say both of you are way off on fixing the issue, if you reduce it too much you are catering to the newer players who have a harder time getting relics and you take away some of the accomplished feeling from the veterans, but if you increase the cost it might make the new players who cant complete the challenges yet feel hopeless in their trying to get the items, recently most of the new stuff has been legendary items only obtainable from the relics, I would suggest adding legendary and non legendary content in similar amounts on the updates.
Yeah, you're right. I'm not right saying screw the experienced players (I've got most stuff unlocked, this isn't quite as big a slap in the face for me), but if I'm trying to get people in to this game, it's hard for me to get them going when they have to stop and try to figure out the already difficult mechanics, in exchange for pitiful rewards. You are right, Leo, there needs to be a middle ground.
I tried to make the Black Market a little bit in the direction of endgame content. I think for new players this feature is not that easy to spot. If you imagine how the progress will be for new players: - Uhh I reached level two I can enter a name for my wizard - Hey, on my next game I can spend skill points, nice - Oh, and there are daily quests to earn card relics - Mh I see a forge and a Black Market (if on weekend) where I can spend those relics Not sure what they will be doing at that point, either save up for the Black Market or try their luck with the forge. But I think it is a good thing that the endgame content is not finished/completed that easily and quickly.
That's fair. I'm just concerned with the "gap" that seems to exist between level forty and sixty. Before forty, the concern is basically just getting enough skills and cards from the forge to have a chance at flatout winning (In version 1.1). After sixty it's collecting those last few cards, and using a specific skill set to max out your bonus length. In between though, there's kind of an awkward space where you don't have enough relics to justify the Black Market, but you will likely be consistently winning, making it somewhat of a grind. Not saying I know the answer to the problem (I assure you I don't know the answer), but it seems like we had pretty cool end-game content already, and now we have more, but we still don't have anything for the new guy trying to make a go of things. Just my own personal observations. I just I can get my brother and my girlfriend in to things like Bloons no problem, but I've not been able to get either of them to actually sit and make a proper go of Mazebert (Despite it being the better game between them), they both feel a lack a progress early on.
Allright, i used Seelenreißer, because it was the card i was eager to get, since i felt (on release) that it would have more impact on long games then any other card. (And i was utterly unlucky!) I personally would not mind a full wipe (stats, level, cards etc). I'm thinking about making a few youtube videos with a new account later down the road, after the Wikia/Info site is up. (Would have to ask Andy for permission first, of course). The goal here, to show some of the basics, maybe explain tower synergies etc... Like an addition to the Information on the Wikia/Site (right now, i think abou abadoning the wikia and make a site, since the wikia looks utterly ugly!) Anyway, the Black Marked, is the endgame version of the Forge. The difference, you dont really have RNG on the black marked, if the community would communicate. And 300 Relics or even 500 Are not that much, compared to the amount you might need to get it, if we only had one item pool.