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Ladder Reset! Shall we do it?

reset_button2What an amazing storm on the bonus round ladder! Just 24 hours after the Android release there were already over 100 score entries in the new ladder. Wow! I loved to see how different strategies evolved. And I saw in horror how the highscore numbers grew to shocking new heights from day to day! Right now jrake holds the record with 201236 seconds. Those are 2.3 days!!! He now holds the 1st place in the other ladder, too, at level 109. It's really unbelievable what you do with this game and what creative strategies you evolve to beat the hell out of it. Well played everybody!! Obviously, I pretty much screwed it up in terms of balancing this time. Although I expected that with 500 rounds there will be a significant increase in max time compared to the previously known highscore of ~2000 seconds. But I didn't expect that the scores would get THAT high! I think we really need another bugfix release to re-balance a few things: - Adjust armor calculation model so that Knusperhexe does not become THAT strong (there have already been suggestions made to go more towards the WC3 calculation model) - Think about what to do with Holgar and his potions (Well played btw to find this :-)) - Bonus round experience reward should not have such an high impact (pretty hard as to balance that one...) - To be continued ... After all, both ladders are a bit flawed at the moment. So I thought it might be time to do a ladder reset with the next bugfix release. I know this is neither an easy decision, nor the most popular one I guess, so I'd like to hear your opinion about it first. I'd do the reset like this: - All players with a level less than 20 keep their progress - All other players will be reset to level 20 - The bonus round ladder will be reset completely Please let me know how you feel abouth this. I added a new poll to harvest your feedback :-) Thanks guys! [yop_poll id="6"]

There should probably also be a cap on the attack speed from the Impatience set, as 2500% is a bit much.

Omg 2 day best of my was 2900. That SICK!!

I'm with the reset but make sure that the game is fixed in balancing issues :)

Reset only after all things are fixed

Level 20? NO! I don't want to lose that much!

Reset the ladders is fine for me, but reset the experience ?? Why should that happen .... so i waste my time played hours to get my level ? I also prefer the reset after fixining all the explots

well,i'm with the reset. and my opinion is tha qwould be okay even if we reset to 0. i mean,the great players such as warlemming,speedle,they can just re-use they strategy because they already have the great one. alternatively,like what ManuWins said,20 is too much,how about 40? but still,community decides :)

the ladder score is high bcoz i think there is some cheater it it imposible to got that high scores for just 500 waves with 1M max interest even you do the Money damage + Knusperhexe + frozen + stun + instakill/stun + backintime+ mr. iron you cant reach that insane score they got... even if you reset the ladder there will always be imba score bcoz they can cheat the game... specially if the game is played in desktop...

even if you reset the ladder there will be players that will have insane hight score bcoz they can cheat the game, specially if they playin it in desktop... obviously they cheat to have that imba score it its imposible to get that far if you only have 500 wave with 1M max interest even if you have Knusperhexe ate to many children and you feed Mr. Iron many items and have many lvl 3 potion it still hard to got to far... damn cheaters....

Do you want beta tester? :)

Not happy with resetting levels to 20. I was level 80 before the last patch came out, through playing without any "exploits". I would completely stop playing this game if I was reset all the way back to 20 through no reason than you releasing a version that was essentially broken due to items that were already proven to be bugged in the forums BEFORE the release (time set). Also, to the person saying that PC players are cheating, what in the actual f*ck. Get over yourself. You don't need to cheat in this game. Every strategy is legit. I spent hours pressing the skip button to get the time bonus - you merely have to have dedication, luck and brains to get a high score in this game. I had the longest bonus round score for a bit at 50000 seconds, and I only stopped it at 50000 seconds because I was afraid the game would crash due to lag. I easily could have double that score as the minions were getting absolutely destroyed at spawn. That wasn't via me cheating, that was simply due to these things: - Elephant replaced by Knux at level 99, resulting in instakilling mass creeps in the bonus round = over 10000 mass creeps eaten = over 10000 armour reduction - Shadow before level 10, resulting in easily 10000% adaption rate to each creep class - Mr. Iron with a Mummy Set + about 20+ Seven League Boots and other attack speed items to make his suit cool down at 1s and his attack speed SO FAST that ANY creep in range got AMP damage repeatedly, so if Shadow ever lost his Impatience stacks, the damage amp negated the loss in normal damage - ALL Jilly's with Impatience set + Lucky Pants, meaning that any bosses that got through were stunned constantly and any smaller creeps were DBT'd - 2x Witches at level 99 for the attack speed boost - Combining every small potion but crit and attack speed. Worst balancing decision ever. Through this alone I had over 3000% item find and quality on my main. - Dungeon Door proc'd constantly on my Mr Iron, as I made him swallow a bunch of luck items and he was level 99. That means I was getting potions and items all throughout the 50000 seconds of my bonus round and before. NOW. Tell me I don't deserve my current level or bonus round score. I didn't hack. I didn't cheat. I merely played the game that was released. tldr; resetting experience levels to 20 for EVERYONE is punishing players for the faults of the GAME. I honestly believe it's fair to reset the bonus round scores as you're obviously going to balance the game so people can't get 2.5 days in the bonus round. BUT, it's completely unfair to reset people to level 20, just because they played the game you released. You're pretty much disrespecting anyone who was over level 20 before the last patch, ESPECIALLY those of us who were around level 80 before the patch anyway. - jhoi

Not happy with resetting levels to 20. I was level 80 before the last patch came out, through playing without any "exploits". I would completely stop playing this game if I was reset all the way back to 20 through no reason than you releasing a version that was essentially broken due to items that were already proven to be bugged in the forums BEFORE the release (time set). Also, to the person saying that PC players are cheating, what in the actual f*ck. Get over yourself. You don't need to cheat in this game. Every strategy is legit. I spent hours pressing the skip button to get the time bonus - you merely have to have dedication, luck and brains to get a high score in this game. I had the longest bonus round score for a bit at 50000 seconds, and I only stopped it at 50000 seconds because I was afraid the game would crash due to lag. I easily could have double that score as the minions were getting absolutely destroyed at spawn. That wasn't via me cheating, that was simply due to these things: - Elephant replaced by Knux at level 99, resulting in instakilling mass creeps in the bonus round = over 10000 mass creeps eaten = over 10000 armour reduction - Shadow before level 10, resulting in easily 10000% adaption rate to each creep class - Mr. Iron with a Mummy Set + about 20+ Seven League Boots and other attack speed items to make his suit cool down at 1s and his attack speed SO FAST that ANY creep in range got AMP damage repeatedly, so if Shadow ever lost his Impatience stacks, the damage amp negated the loss in normal damage - ALL Jilly's with Impatience set + Lucky Pants, meaning that any bosses that got through were stunned constantly and any smaller creeps were DBT'd - 2x Witches at level 99 for the attack speed boost - Combining every small potion but crit and attack speed. Worst balancing decision ever. Through this alone I had over 3000% item find and quality on my main. - Dungeon Door proc'd constantly on my Mr Iron, as I made him swallow a bunch of luck items and he was level 99. That means I was getting potions and items all throughout the 50000 seconds of my bonus round and before. NOW. Tell me I don't deserve my current level or bonus round score. I didn't hack. I didn't cheat. I merely played the game that was released. tldr; resetting experience levels to 20 for EVERYONE is punishing players for the faults of the GAME. I honestly believe it's fair to reset the bonus round scores as you're obviously going to balance the game so people can't get 2.5 days in the bonus round. BUT, it's completely unfair to reset people to level 20, just because they played the game you released. You're pretty much disrespecting anyone who was over level 20 before the last patch, ESPECIALLY those of us who were around level 80 before the patch anyway. - jhoi

Probably a fairer method for dealing with the experience gain the last few days is simply take 20 levels off every single member (except those under level 20, I guess). I only played the game after the patch three times. In that time I gained about 10-15 levels (due to being around level 80, the experience needed to get to the next level was huge anyway). Unless you played 2.5 days of the experience round, taking 20 levels off combats the experience gained during this patch and DOESN'T punish those of us who were WELL above level 20 before the last patch. - jhoi

Just reset the bonus round ladder. Ita unfair to players that is already high lvl b4 the bonus round came. Plz be considerate to high lvl players like jhoi and me Im already lvl74 before the bonus round came up.

Cool down jhoijhoi, no need to act like that, if those guys start reading the forum maybe they'll get how we are scoring that high. Don't waste your time on somebody who mindlessly play the game. I agree I wouldn't play the game if I were to lose 70 levels, and that doing something like that is disrespectful to whom played the game fairly. But please, be patience, and if anything I think those who had a high score on the ladder should vote, because haters might want to reset both because they think we hacked the game. I'm up for the beta tester thingy Kemu suggested. :)

I think my comment was justified. No one cheated to get their scores (to my knowledge).

Oh stop it, you...

Lvl - just a figure... It's beta test... all score must be reset... but later... Now there is no reason... new bugs gona rise...) We just need "glory hall"... with best results per each release. Imo it will be awesome.

Fix(bugs) -> Nerf(items) -> Ballance(NERF) -> Rework... Go to first step. r u happy now? Y? -> Reset -> Release.

easy there jhoi. i knew that all of great players like you ain't cheat,but they just getting their point of view. just hope Andy seeing these comments and get the whole thing sorted

I sink bobus round need reset, bat don't tooth exp. If nerf exp, thats must be level 60 or it shot down the interest to climb up. sorry for english.

Good spot! I added this to the changelog for 0.9.3!

Totally agree on that. I think I will first release 0.9.3 before doing anything about the ladder. Maybe reset the bonus round ladder to see how stuff works out in the new version.

Very much appreciated! Can you fire me a mail at andy at mazebert dot com?

I don't believe this was achieved by cheating. The truely insane scores bumped in after the Holgar potion trick was revealed in the forum :-) I can see how this becomes an almost endless experience. For good reason I prevent drops in the bonus round alltogether. Now, with Holgar producing thousands of potions that can be transmuted to other rares I see how this becomes crazy pretty damn fast :-)

I don't believe this was achieved by cheating. The truely insane scores bumped in after the Holgar potion trick was revealed in the forum :-) I can see how this becomes an almost endless experience. For good reason I prevent drops in the bonus round alltogether. Now, with Holgar producing thousands of potions that can be transmuted to other rares I see how this becomes crazy pretty damn fast :-)

You deserve it jhoi :-) Everyone does. I mean it's not that you can just play the game in some way and get this massive bonus round survival out of it just like that. A lot of strategy and creativity is necessary to beat it like you guys did. At this point, be releaved, I don't think I gonna make a hard reset on the xp ladder even if the poll shows something different. But please, be prepared that it might happen eventually (in whatever form I don't know yet). But right now this game is still in beta mode. Usually it's best practice before doing the first official release (1.0!!) to reset ladders and to start over from scratch in the 'official' game. But due to the fact that I'm facing a pretty much endleess list of features to do before that happens, it will take some time...

That's a really good suggestion. Maybe such a rollback would be the best!

Awesome! Very much appreciated! Can you fire me a mail as well at andy at mazebert dot com?

I hope so, too :-D

Yes I come to the same conclusion! New bugfix release which will fix reported bugs/balancing issues. Reset bonus round. See what scores are submitted. Move on with new features :-D

Andy when will you release 0.9.3?

Hello there :D and hey there Andy. firstly, i would like thank andy again for this game, and this game of his is Really stable even when it's push to it's limits. Andy, you didn't screw up the balancing, in fact i'm hoping for changes to help improve the survivability. (p.s. I am sorry for putting you through this, it was never my intent.) I believe many people have found some bugs within the game, unfortunately i suck real bad at programming and i don't know how to correct it. hmmm, do you need some testers? i'd be glad to be one for this game :) Resetting the ladder: I feel that resetting the Bonus Survival would be the best option. as for the Game Progress ladder, if you want to roll back the levels, I'd suggest that you remove 20 levels for those who are at level 120, 18 for those who are >110, 16 for those who are >100, 14 for those who are >90; 12 for players>80; 10 for players> 70; 8 for players>60, 6 for players>50, 4 for players>40 and you could go on, or not touch those who are below lvl 40 I've read through the comments. -Impatience set I feel that the attack speed is the sole purpose of the item, reducing it might not be that helpful. there is a pro and a con when a player presses next wave, so i find it reasonable. -jhoijhoi i like the points that you've mentioned and the emotions ;) the exp for bonus rounds do increase too quickly, they should be increased every 100(or 200/360) seconds.