Andy
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Andy

Level: 109
Rank: 325

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Balancing 1,1

What’s OP and needs a nerf, what needs to be buffed? Your balancing suggestions for version 1.1!
Romeo

Romeo

Level: -
Rank: -

I gotta say, as much as I love it, The Ripper so far seems obscenely potent in my very first run. Solora and Scarecrow both need a buff still, they're very weak. The Wolf and Spider changes are fantastic, brings some much-needed utility to them.
Leotardis

Leotardis

Level: -
Rank: -

I think the ripper needs some tweaks, and like the other guy said solara and the scarecrow are horrific. Other than that I am still checking things out, havent had much time but I am trying.
gibby8998

gibby8998

Level: 89
Rank: 1057

Even though i dont get very far in the rounds (max 70) but i haveused scarcrow and solara and they both did nothing to help sorry if i sound like im totally hating on them im just syaing
Romeo

Romeo

Level: -
Rank: -

As it stands, they're both worthless. Solutions I can think of: Solara - Either increase her splash range, or give her multiple attacks (Like the Rabbit). Someone suggested updating her target matrix - which wouldn't hurt, but I don't think will be sufficient to save her. Scarecrow - Give him a MASSIVE damage boost, but increase the time required to call crows, and adjust the ability to only get one new crow every ten levels. Make him fill the niche of single-target assassin.
Leotardis

Leotardis

Level: -
Rank: -

I like it, as a sidenote I think the scarecrow should be buffed first as he has been a joke for a long time.
poda

poda

Level: 113
Rank: 251

The ripper needs to buffed. With a 3s attack it takes a very long time to ramp up stack building so I think attack speed needs to be reduced. The proc on kill increase to attack speed is also pretty much useless if you want to maximize stacks on it as you don't actually want the ripper to kill anything, just crit on mobs and build stacks and let another carry like holgar/shadow kill off mobs after they leave ripper's range. Anyway, just some thoughts I had after doing a 500 round trying to max stacks on the ripper.
Romeo

Romeo

Level: -
Rank: -

Really? See, I felt the opposite. With a little bit of work, I find the Ripper far and away superior to Shadow. The three second initial Speed is necessary to prevent him from being ridiculously overpowered in my book (Imagine how ridiculous he'd be if you used the skill to pick him off the fisrt round, using the Loan Shark hero).
poda

poda

Level: 113
Rank: 251

Yes I think so. This was my first attempt so obviously you can probably do much much better than I did but I had around 10-11k thirsts when I hit round 500 whereas you should easily be able to get a shadow to 6k+. Assuming 1 stack on shadow is equivalent to 10 stacks on ripper( I have no idea how crit dmg scales with multi crit, so probably is something different) thats 1/6 the power of shadow.
Romeo

Romeo

Level: -
Rank: -

Map balance is an important consideration for them too, you're right. Shadow on the first map is typically superior, whereas Ripper excels at the middle too. Haven't had a chance to try Ripper in Golden Grounds yet, so I can't comment there.
TheMarine

TheMarine

Level: -
Rank: -

items i dont like to use and i think need to be changed baby sword, wooden staff : weaker than t bone steak handbag : there is no proper female tower to kill creeps except jilly all seems for support
Ontrose

Ontrose

Level: -
Rank: -

Some thoughts about different Towers. - Solara. Well i have posted it already and i think Andy is going to check what to do with her. (Its on Andys radar already) - Ripper. Even though i only gave him a brief try, he got an insane potential. First, his Abilitys are not luck based. Second: To have the maximum out of him you have to run him on edge of leaking. What do i mean? The more he crits, the stronger will he be in the end game. Which does mean, that he like Shadow (which is luck based) have to hit enemys as many times as possible to farm stacks. Which means: He is not your primary carry for a long long time. Third: Due to 1+2 he scales incredibly with the Knight hero (+2 MC etc). I dont think he needs to be buffed/nerfed right now, since he is too new and people are not used to him and his tactics right now. Give him a month or two and we will be used to him - As far as i know, dmg calculation is simply multiplication. 100 dmg, with 100% crit dmg and 5 Multicrit= 100*2*5 =1000dmg. Not taking the Crit Chance into account here. (cant give you exact numbers here, but the higher the chance is, the higher the chance to use a higher multiplyer.) - Maybe the itemchance is a tiny bit too low. But hard to tell with only a couple of days to try things.
Romeo

Romeo

Level: -
Rank: -

"baby sword, wooden staff : weaker than t bone steak handbag : there is no proper female tower to kill creeps except jilly all seems for support" Agreed, those two need some kind of secondary bonus to make them even remotely useful. The Wooden Staff is currently the worst item in the game, besides the Pumpkin which is specifically designed to be awful. Miss Jilly and Knuperhexe get ridiculous advantages from it. Small Spider, Black Widow and Herb Witch can possibly get utility from it. But don't discount it too quickly. Yeah Andy said he's looking in to the Darkness weak blues (Which I am elated about). Yes, the Ripper can be absolutely ridiculous when specced properly. The knight is obviously option #1, but if Prince Lycaon (The Critical starter) can get some pretty sweet utility with him too. I think he's easily the new most powerful non-Legenday tower in the game, bar none.
Ontrose

Ontrose

Level: -
Rank: -

"The pumpkin was designed to suck" Nope. And NOPE! The pumpkin is used if you have a multiple support towers early on (like having 3 bars, 2 herbs, 4 beavers/Jillys early cos you cant get the towers you want). You equip pumpkins on them if you do not need their dmg right now. You can unequip pumpkins again if you need the bit of dmg and the beaver stuns. This reduces the lasthit chance of the towers quite a bit, which means less exp lost on your carry. I think the pumpkin is worth more then the whole Frozen set (Besides the kill to get GIB ability). Only in the long run (Lets say level 100+ where your puny support towers do not matter for dmg anymore) the pumpkin gets "useless".
Leotardis

Leotardis

Level: -
Rank: -

When I was reading I thought you were going to say gib was bad, but you didnt say that so life is good.
Ontrose

Ontrose

Level: -
Rank: -

Nope! Gib is an absolutely incredible tower! One of the best supports available, besides Knusper Every other support is optional, but these 2 are a must have for a long bonus time score... The amount that gib slows... and Knusper just absolutely reduces the armor to 0... as important as your carry (or well... close to it ^^)
Romeo

Romeo

Level: -
Rank: -

"“The pumpkin was designed to suck” Nope. And NOPE! The pumpkin is used if you have a multiple support towers early on (like having 3 bars, 2 herbs, 4 beavers/Jillys early cos you cant get the towers you want). You equip pumpkins on them if you do not need their dmg right now. You can unequip pumpkins again if you need the bit of dmg and the beaver stuns. This reduces the lasthit chance of the towers quite a bit, which means less exp lost on your carry. I think the pumpkin is worth more then the whole Frozen set (Besides the kill to get GIB ability). Only in the long run (Lets say level 100+ where your puny support towers do not matter for dmg anymore) the pumpkin gets “useless”." That's kinda the point though: Yes, the Pumpkin prevents certain towers from cannabalizing XP, because the Pumpkin is literally designed to suck. That is its purpose. And I do love Gib as well. I wish they pushed him up to Rare (Along with the expense increase to match) though, and gave his stacks a WAY longer duration (If not permanent). I love Gib, but Darkness already has three other Uncommon towers. We only just got two Rares. For the amount of work required to get Gib in the first place, it would give him a unique role. He could also use a slight stat bump as well (He is literally the weakest Darkness tower in the game, and that includes the Common class of cards).
Ontrose

Ontrose

Level: -
Rank: -

Well a useful item like "pumpkin" isnt designed to suck XD The stats are useful, the item is, so it is not sucking ^^ There are far more useless items out there ^^ About Gib-Statsbuff. Well i dont really think he needs one. If he needs anything then it would be a tiny cleave to throw slowing on everybody... So the MR would be free for a different tower. I like to play Gib with MR and the full withered set (time warp and dmg amplify).
Romeo

Romeo

Level: -
Rank: -

I also throw the Reaver on him, and that too could help. As for needing a boost, I like Gib, but if you read around here, not many people bother using him. The summoning aspect of him is difficult, destroys two extremely useful items, and then simply adds yet another Uncommon Darkness tower in to the mix. Darkness already has more than enough Uncommon Cards, they struggle at Rare. Move him up there, increase his price to be on par with Rare cards, and then make him better to justify both the difficulty of acquiring him, and the increased Gold cost. As it stands, Darkness has no Rare support cards. Gib could fix that.
Leotardis

Leotardis

Level: -
Rank: -

The only frozen item I like is the heart, the candle, book, and frozen water become pointless.
Romeo

Romeo

Level: -
Rank: -

Candle pairs up nicely with the Ripper to get him going, becomes useless after that, I agree (Although pairing it with two hearts give +5% Critical Chance, +1 Multicrit and +130% Critical Damage, which is awesome). And the Heart is among the most useful non-Legendary items in the game to me. Regardless, it's still a nightmare trying to get those four items in a match, plus sacrificing them, plus hoping for a Reaver so that Gib is useful. Shouldn't be that hard to make an Uncommon support tower have any utility at all. Besides, I'm not saying turf the summoning mechanic, I actually love that aspect. Just make that summoning mechanic worth all the hassle.
Leotardis

Leotardis

Level: -
Rank: -

Its only really hard now because of the recent decrease in items that you get.
Romeo

Romeo

Level: -
Rank: -

Agreed, and on top of that, every new item added to the game decreases the odds of getting the precise one you want. As a result, Gib is getting harder to justify reaching for. Bump him up, make him moar awsummer, problem solved.
Ontrose

Ontrose

Level: -
Rank: -

Honestly? Gib is easy to get, at least with Darkness, since Jilly got instant kill ability... and even without MR he is still a potant support tower, against bosses/challange... Thats the reason my solara build does not totally fail :D
Romeo

Romeo

Level: -
Rank: -

I think you and I have massively different opinions on Easy, Ontrose. There are fourteen Common items, giving you 7% chance to get Frozen Water. With the reduced Item Spawn, I'm only getting about two items per round AFTER bumping up Item Chance. Then add in the fact that before unlocks, there's already the eleven Uncommon Items gives you 9% on the Book, and ten Rare Items meaning you have 20% for the first one you need, and 10% afterwards, and it becomes obvious that Gib HAS gotten harder and harder to justify. And Darkness doesn't really need help with Boss and Challenge. Shadow and Ripper shred the former in no time flat, and the Ripper kills the latter with minimal effort. They're more exposed with Normal, Air and Mass Challenge than anything else, which all need Gib to splash in order to be truly beneficial. Again, I love Gib, but the fact is he has become way too much work for his limited benefit. And this is coming from someone who almost exclusively uses Pure Darkness decks.
t4c1

t4c1

Level: 118
Rank: 202

Adding my opinion on balance First, heroes: Most of them seem to be well balanced, only Osmo, the jester lord seems to have too strong drawback - he makes early game extremley hard. Combined with lower item drop rate I only finish ~1 in 25 games with him. If necessary reduce his luck or item find bonuses. Towers: Shadow is still much too powerful. I did some math and playtesting and it seems shadow can easily do 100 times more damage per second than any other tower. I suggest to change it so, that shadows keeps current values for the first adapt, while each following adapt only changes values for 99% of the previous one. Changes on common darkness towers and wolf were really cool, while huli, scarface, scarecrow and solara would also be happy with some small buffs. A lot of people seem to think the ripper is as good as shadow. Unless I'm doing something wrong he is quite well balanced imo. Items are quite nice already, but i would make a small buff for wooden staff, baby sword, wet towel and frozen candle. Cards I don't have: Cape of the scepter seems kinda weak for a legendary item, while blood demon's blade seems extremely powerful, especially with the new skull of darkness. Overall the game got harder, because of reduced item drop rate, so maybe some change in creeps hp would be appropriate.
Romeo

Romeo

Level: -
Rank: -

I cannot disagree with that harder. In one of my multi-deck games I had Shadow by round five, and Muli by round 60. Muli eventually caught up and surpassed Shadow for adjusted DPS before the end of round 200. Haven't done a successful match to round 500 yet, but I've had Muli, Dark Forge and Ripper all outrunning Shadow in every game I've played. Muli and Ripper have better odds at increasing their damage, and Dark Forge doesn't suffer from the poor stats of Shadow during Challenge/Horseman/Bonus rounds. Typically by the end I'm using Shadow as an anti-air tower. I agree with that, and the good news is Andy is already looking at updated at least the Uncommon Darkness cards. See, I find the Shadow quite balanced now. Even with his luck maxed out, you're looking at an overall +1% damage increase for every ten shots. The Ripper with his Critical Chance maxed out is looking at a +0.1% overall damage increase every shot. Once Multicrit starts coming in to play, that starts bring up closer to the Shadow's +1% increase per shot. And late game, where the Shadow's base stats never really go all that high, the Ripper is already doing hundreds of base-damage before level 20. That's why people love him so much. I agree with all these too. The Wooden Staff is ridiculously worthless, and the Baby Sword could perhaps provide a minor XP or Speed boost. At least the last two are sorta useful for now (Wet Towel can be useful early on with Ripper, Frozen Candle later on with the same). Only change I would perhaps give the last two is giving the Critical Damage on the Frozen Candle a scaling effect.
poda

poda

Level: 113
Rank: 251

You're forgetting why shadow is so powerful Romeo... Unlike the ripper the shadow and MS reaver have a certain synergy.
TheMarine

TheMarine

Level: -
Rank: -

How about wooden staff : 5 damage > 5 luck t bone : 20 damage > 20 critical damage also medium t bone , rare steak change to increase critical damage
gibby8998

gibby8998

Level: 89
Rank: 1057

I agree with themarine
TheMarine

TheMarine

Level: -
Rank: -

before shadow gets adapt limit shadow will be the most powerful
Romeo

Romeo

Level: -
Rank: -

"You’re forgetting why shadow is so powerful Romeo… Unlike the ripper the shadow and MS reaver have a certain synergy." WHHHAAAAAA? Nah, Ripper has WAY better Synergy than Shadow with the Reaver. The Reaver's biggest drawback is the fact you lose half your Range. Know who doesn't lose any Range? The Ripper. That being said, I don't use Reaver on my carry, he always goes to Gib as soon as I've got him. "before shadow gets adapt limit shadow will be the most powerful" See, I like the Shadow where he is. He isn't useless, he's not a runaway like he used to be. I wouldn't argue with a few boosts to the other carry towers to bring them up to snuff, but Shadow isn't top dog anymore. Right off the bat, when I played a totally open deck, my Muli caught up to and surpassed my Shadow in adjusted DPS despite starting about fifty rounds later.
Ontrose

Ontrose

Level: -
Rank: -

For hwo long did your match go? And try the MR on shadow... It basically doubles (or more) your stack gain. How did your Muli caught up? It cant have been a 500 waves game and 5k+ time game, since Muli SHOULD run to his max rather early after getting level 99 (149 Bananas eaten). As always, cant say much about the ripper. But as far as i can see it, shadow is still top dog. The big advantage from Shadow compared to the Ripper is the additional damage modifier (his stacks), that got a whole different impact then critical damage.
t4c1

t4c1

Level: 118
Rank: 202

Two of the changes in 1.1.4 were too large buffs. Scarecrow can attack so many targets making him too good end game support with withered set. Abyss King is totally off the charts. He recruits so many creeps that he makes darkness towers only option for endless round. Combining this with shadow makes the game kinda boring - just reached 150k seconds and still don't need the real damage items. And i just got another idea for shadow nerf - make it so that adapt scales additively with damage bonus instead of multiplicatively (making 1000% adapt and 1000% damage bonus result in 2000% damage increase, not 10000% as it is now).
Ontrose

Ontrose

Level: -
Rank: -

I fully agree to you T4c1. Since i tend to avoid Darkness (cos of shadow) i only got a slight impression of the Abyss King, but he seems to gain much more stacks then before and of course knusper too, since she does not have competition anymore.
Romeo

Romeo

Level: -
Rank: -

"For hwo long did your match go? And try the MR on shadow… It basically doubles (or more) your stack gain. How did your Muli caught up? It cant have been a 500 waves game and 5k+ time game, since Muli SHOULD run to his max rather early after getting level 99 (149 Bananas eaten)." Oh gosh, Muli, not Huli. Huli is terrible. Muli is the one Huli feeds. Muli can scale indefinitely, and that scaling increases with Speed. "As always, cant say much about the ripper. But as far as i can see it, shadow is still top dog. The big advantage from Shadow compared to the Ripper is the additional damage modifier (his stacks), that got a whole different impact then critical damage." Ripper is pretty swell. Don't forget, while the Shadow essentially "nets" a 1% damage increase overall per ten attacks or so, Ripper can guarantee himself 0.05% Damage and 0.05% Crit Damage. I seperated them, because if you remember how Multicrit works, the latter part of that bonus becomes REALLY AMAZING, REALLY QUICK. Ripper's downfall is that he is even more inconsistent than Shadow currently is. If you're lucky, he'll easily slaughter without issue. If you're unlucky, you'll not get enough Critical hits early on to make him exceed the rate of armor-gain. As for the discussions on Abyss King, he is pretty amazing as it stands, I have to admit. That said, I still love the new version of his mechanic way better than the old one.