Is it my level, or is it me?

Just found this game a few days ago and am really liking it. Currently at level 48. I'm currently trying to get past wave 300 (always dying to the horse) working towards the bonus stage I've been trying to mimic what I slightly see in the bonus round thread, but can't seem to ever kill the challenge round and can only kill the horseman at round 50 and sometimes 100, can't ever kill at other levels I feel like part of the issue is only being level 48, but I'm positive if I had a better setup, that'd also help immensely. I haven't maxed out the health portion, trying to get a better understanding of placement strategy before I do this. my normal setup with items 1 elvis 2 frozen set 2 abyss king AS, try to get impatience set 3 beaver AS (attack speed) 4 beaver AS 5 holgar (secondary carry) 2x seven league boots, 2xviking helment or 2x meat mallet (holgar rarely gets above lvl 40) 6 ganesha -> knus impatience set 7 bear hunter 2 frozen set, MR, AS 8 beaver AS 9 dark forge (usually have to sacrifice to survive a few rounds, so i usually replace with a witch) 10 shadow (carry) impatience set with excalibur 11 iron man or a witch. Ironman: all the +1 to area items, 7LB, bow) 12-17 jilly AS, try to get impatience set I've tried the guide at the top of the forum, but still had issues killing challenges and horseman. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I know some people keep their builds top secret; I'd be down for having a conversation outside of the forum. EDIT: I also feel like my early game is weak. I reroll until I get a scientist and put it on my carry spot and hope to get thieves and place them on 1-3, if I get another scientist, I place on 5. work towards a money bin and a black widow to stack up money so I can ditch the thieves whenever I get a tower to replace them. 95% of the time placing jilly's as I get them. I place shadow when i get him and try and place holgar when I get him, usually don't have the gold.

Hello Travv801, first off: Welcome in the community. From such an brief statement its rather hard to give some explicit advise for your buildup. Have to be a bit generalized. First off: The starting tower is quite important. Jilly is not always the best choice. Try a well placed Dandelion or Rabbit, might work wonders. And the idea of placing Scientists to get exp for your carry towers is... meh.... just meh... Allright, what is most important for the startup? Where do you place a carry and of course WHICH will you use in the long run and do you intend to open a Meadcompany (Holgar). It seems like you want to go for a buffed shadow for the long run. You have to be aware that the shadow is not intended in such an buildup as early/midgame carry and it sucks balls against challange/Horsemen. So your Goal should be: Get as much Levels on your Carry (Holgar!!!!) early on and of course replace the startup tower with Holgar himself. Normally you should be able to get the first 10-20 rounds with a Dande/Rabbit/Jilly nearly alone. After 10 levels or so you might want to setup a few Thiefs. If you play on normal or hard your holgar will have a hard time if the support towers (thiefs) take too much of the exp. As soon as you get an Holgar you might want to think about gettin some Buff towers around him (I personally prefer Herb Witches since he really lacks AS). Your Goal with Holgar is of course gettin to your 400% Itemdropchance as fast as possible. So reroll his meads and only drink enough dmg/speed/crit pots so you clear the waves. Rest reroll until you get enough Water of Lifes. The second part of the shadow: Well the point here is not do push his dmg at all. As long as Holgar can carry LET HIM. More meads = more power endgame. You might even want to place the shadow in front of Holgar so he can farm stacks over stacks. If he starts to get more and more kills just keep your hand with potions. Dont use them until you need them. You should have enough lives to leak horsemans. The key for a shadow is: Speed, Luckboost (Pants) and of course Messerschmidts Reaver. He can gain multiple stacks with a single hit. So in instance it is possible to get 200-300% dmg on a mass challange round on round ~150 depending on your dropluck. Well that should cover the basics. Now lets go on to the Races/Decks. It seems like you play all 3 Races. Which means: You get 2 Level 99 Towers for FREE. Teh Dark Forge and Ganesha benefit from each other. Forge steals EXP and Ganesha gains huge amount of it if somethin levels up. Black widow is a good choice for a lvl 99 here. HUGE dropchance bonus from her aura. Another option might be to use them to get 198 lifes. Get them married and use the potion afterwards. That at least should bring you easy through the Horsemen. Another point about the Forge: It can produce a good sword more powerful then Excalibur. My normal setup on Shadow for late is like this: Excalibur, Bandages (If my speed isnt maxed out without, if it is i add Lucky Pants/Viking Helmet), Lucky Pants (you can go with 2 Viking Helmets here instead of Bandage) and of course sword from the Dark Forge. Another option would be: Excalibur, Sword of the Dark forge (forgot its name) and Lucky pants+Cactus. Since you miss the legendary items you miss out some really powerful stuff. Try to learn minimize your leaks as soon as you can the blood demon gives an HUGE DMG bonus to towers like shadow/scarface etc. Another question is: What abilitys does your wizard have? Most important traits are: DropCHANCE, Luck and Speed. Guess I've written up many many basic things you already knew, but probably one or two statements enlightened you and prove useful for you games =) MEH YOUR USING ABYSS KING AND NOT KNUSPER?! Use the friggn overpowered Armor debuff from Knusper! Your shadow doesnt really need the dmg/crit boost of your Abyss. The Armor aura will work out better for long games. It really soaks the dmg later on. If you want to keep Abyss at least switch Holgar with Solara for lategame. Solara does quite good dmg if you keep the bosses (where the %dmg of shadow does not work) around Solara. Might want to use 1-2 Iron Mans with eaten speeditems and of course withered Set on them. 2 Withered set items 2 Frozen set items. Or go for 3 withered items. Give Solara 4 Mallets if you have decent speed. Easy 1200% dmg on her (299dmg/mallet). Since the fire STACKS it gets quite powerful if the boss stays around. Or go with 3 Mallets and an Cactus. P.S. I feel that spending MUCH money on the forge is more rewarding then a few coins. Try to save 3-4 hundret coints :> *edit: I will try to make a 300 rounds game without about 40 Skillpoints used. That should about equal your Level. Will tell you how it worked out. Forgot to mention: Wait with your Acolyte of Greed till you have a lvl 99 tower =) **Edit Just finished the 300 Waves match. Was rather close since i went with Shadow only carry and Darkness only. Did not build a single Acolyte though and did not use any of the legendary stuff. It is doable and i think Metro would be easier or nature then Darkness only. Wasnt able to get a single Horseman down (besides that exploding potion). But its doable.

Thanks for the awesome write up. I am using Knus, on tile 6 after i get elephant to 99 ;) Where are you placing the dandilion? are you using the older strat of placing carry on 2? Guess it depends on your overall strat I guess (from what I've heard, holgar on 2 if carry, holgar on 5 if using shadow as main carry) The skills I was using was timemaster at 7, wave at 3, but dropped to 1 to learn the 300 wave. 10 on giant, 10 on ninja, 10 on protector and I think I had some on elder. I didn't know about the item that was more powerful than excalibur. I guess I just need to play a lot more, as I'm still really new to the game :p I'm going to play a few games with your suggestions. I already know it'll help and the good thing is that I'm understanding . Yay! haha

Well the Sword from the Dark Forge got a +3 multicrit if im not wrong. thats pretty much all the positive effects. But in games which are longer then 200 waves the MC is more important then a bit of dmg. Thats why i think it is stronger then Excalibur in the long run. Im not sure about the numbers your talking about ;) Oh there we go. You took them from Jhoijhois guide i guess? Remember that one is pretty old and made for 200 Wave games. So the strenghts and purposes of the towers might differ a bit for the 300/400/500 Waves matches. I personally prefer not to "use" 1-3 at all. Or at least i Barely do. My Holgar normally goes on 5 (in rare cases on 6, if i plan on using Helm of Hades) and the Shadow-Place-Holder-Tower (Ganesha) on 10. If i get Forge+Ganesha early on the forge goes on Tile 2 and gets replaced either with Black Widow or Elvis. My Knusper goes on 1 or if the Helm of Hades is free 6 (since Holgar is on 5 then). Can attack as the first tower and aura covers all ground where your Carrys will hit the enemy. Manitou on 13 and so on. Oh and Whatever Tower you place on 3, he gets the "dungeon door". Let me know if it helped in the end =)

I had bad luck for many runs (tons of air, bad item/tower drops, and hardly any potions). I did however pull this off. My shadow didn't do so well with getting stacks, but Holgar was doing amazing work. I need to work towards lvl 70 so I can choose Holgar and not wait for him to drop. That's usually the issue I have, I get him so late and ruins the run

Congratz to beating it =) Yeah a bit of luck always plays into it. Love to start with 2 Wisdom waves right away. Would like to know how many stacks your shadow had =) On the run i did yesterday i think it came to about 8k stacks. Mhhm i feel that holgar drops quite often and early. I mean you normally ahve the money AROUND level 30. give or take a few levels. So you should be able to roll 2 Yellow Cards (by trading up). Maybe your are just unlucky but normally i get by that time. I personally go for a purple tower with the Deckmaster Perk. *Edit just watching the picture you posted a bit closer. What is that Bear Trapper doing there? Kind of Carry?Wasted spot for a Supportive Tower. Why so many beavers/Jillys? Way better to get 2-3 Iron Mans feed them a couple of boots/Mushrooms and give them the time warp set. (Withered i think). Keeps them longer in hit range. If you go for beavers i hope you got early BUZZ BUZZ set on them + lucky pants. This way you get the 80% stunchance on hit. Another point is the placement of your manitou. It got an 3 Aura Range and besides that... nothin. LITERALLY nothing =) Replace the jilly just above your shadow with Manitou. Aura should reach both Carry units with your placement. Another thing is: You are playing with all races i guess? Have to with Ironman, Shadow and Holgar ;) So use your friggn Black widow! BIG FAT itemchance increase. You can normally push your dropchance to a max of 400%. Black widow starts with 20 (not sure though). In the end it means you got a Dropchance of 10% (Well just a random number here not the real value. No clue about the real value). So with max dropchance you got a decent 40% to get an item on kill. With Black widow it would be (level 1 widow): 48%. So 8% higher dropchance right off. This is a special case since the effects are from different sources so they benefit from each other ;) instead of stacking to a max value. So i might be wise to get it early if you hjave trouble gettin equip or staying alive. Waitin for a level 99 tower to get the widow is only a good choice if your early game is easy

My shadow didn't have very many stacks, maybe just 1-2k? holgar was killing stuff so fast that he wasn't getting very many stacks, even on mass... Just need to work out the build a little more bear trap had the frozen set on him and would freeze a large area of creeps. I never thought about beefing up multiple iron man, but the one I did have had the withered set, worked wonders! All of the beavers and jillys had the impatience set, plus lucky pants. I had Black Widow in the spot that Manitou was in, I switched them once I got to bonus stage.